MJ Fitzpatrick wants you to listen to that little voice that is telling you to break new ground, to try a new tactic, to create a new product, or start a new business… even when everybody in your life says it’s crazy.

He helps entrepreneurs with business problems get to the root causes – not just treat the symptoms. For example, not selling enough is usually the #1 in most businesses – but why you’re not selling is something you may not realize. Often, it’s your attitude, says MJ. He talks about how to overcome that obstacle.

One thing to keep in mind, says MJ, isn’t that business doesn’t have to be a grind. It can be hard work but fulfilling. After he came to that realization he formulated a better way to do business and he shares that in this interview. 

Tune in to find out…

• Why business should be fun– and how to make it so– even when things are tough
• The question you must ask yourself often– and if you answer no, you have to rethink things
• The importance of a “safe space” for your employees– it’s not what you think
• Who your business serves… other than your customers (and why they’re just as important)
• And more

Listen now…

Mentioned in this episode:

• https://www.mjfitzpatrick.com 
• https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCyajAxmoa3Ht_LuZXYrVg-Q

Transcript

Doug Hall: Hi, everybody. This is Doug Hall, your host for Doug Hall Go for Growth. And today I have a special guest live from Sydney, Australia. None other than Matthew Fitzpatrick, whose firm is MJ Fitzpatrick, and he’s kind of specialist and helping us be our real self. So I’m hoping to learn some tips today. And I want you to learn to so help me in welcoming Matthew to the show.

Matthew. Great to have you here.

MJ Fitzpatrick: Good to have you here. By the way, most people call me MJ so you might get your thoughts. Did you call me Matt? Yeah. Who are you talking to?

Doug Hall: Yeah. All right. Well, we want to use the right handle. So and frankly, I think MJ is a better branding handle anyway, so I appreciate it. So great, good on you. Tell us a little bit about your origin story. How did you get where you are now? And what are some growth stories you learned along the way?

How Did We Get Here?

MJ Fitzpatrick: Cool. So I think anytime you ask anyone where they come from, I think there’s a lot of different ways they can take it. You can, you know, talk about things that happened to you growing up or talk about, you know, you’re in a business and you thought you could do it better than your boss or whatever it is. But I think the end of the day, it really comes down to following that part of you, which doesn’t, doesn’t quite speak very loudly and is actually usually just speaking in a whisper telling you, Hey, I think I think you need to go in this direction. I think you need to do this thing over here. And you can’t really ever quite explain it and you’re not even really sure why you should go over there.

But there’s just some part of you which is constantly telling you, Hey, you know, you’re not where you need to be. It’s actually you know, changing the business or selling a different product or whatever it is along the way. And so every kind of business owner I know has had to make a decision like that where everyone else in their wife was telling them it was a silly decision, but some part of them which they couldn’t fully articulate was actually telling them where they needed to go. So now I’ve gotten where I am today is, you know, following that part of me, which is actually been right, every single time I’ve listened to it. And it’s been a hell of a journey. I mean, you know, I started working just with entrepreneurs, they were a great market to sell to if you’re trying to help people get better. every entrepreneur knows, that knows they need to grow, know, there’s more, they’re leaving on the table. And, you know, I worked with them for about 12 months.

And then I realized that I wanted to, you know, instead of focusing so much on business, I actually realized that business just sits atop your personal life. And that, you know, business is a subset of just how you think about yourself in general. So then I started working with people one on one actually worked with women for about two years straight, was very fun working with them very easy to drive business in that realm. And then about six months ago, I started working with men as well. And then we became very obvious that I needed to just focus on working with men. So for the last six months, we’ve basically been working with men exclusively. That meant closing the women’s side of the business down in about a month, which was 95% of our revenue at the time when we did that. Basically retooling the whole company, all on a hunch that is this is where we needed to go and follow that hardship. And it’s all seem to have work somehow along the way.

So, you know, I think the biggest thing for me is, I’m always trying to, I’m always trying to ask the question, well, what’s the problem that’s actually creating that problem? Because, you know, at least in my experience, a lot of people’s businesses aren’t working because they’re just not selling enough. And they feel uncomfortable selling or they feel uncomfortable, you know, raising their prices or actually asking what that’s worth and, you know, the answer to that is will sell more, but the deeper answer is Will, why you actually feeling uncomfortable selling in the process, right? Why you actually feel like, you don’t want to ask for more money because I think a lot of people that in my experience in business, have folk focusing too tactically, right, because everyone knows what they should be doing. Right. But it’s the question is, well, not how do I do it? The question is, well, why am I not doing it? Because if you start going down that rabbit hole, it’s a very deep rabbit hole. Bought, then business starts getting easier and easier and easier because you’re solving a problem at its actual root level rather than just constantly solving symptoms. And a lot of the people, and especially in my own experience, in the early days as a business owner, I was just solving symptoms, right? I was just trying to pump myself up for a sales call, rather than asking, Well, why do I actually feel so anxious about this? Why do I not want to do this in the first place?

And when I started asking that higher-order question, things started moving really quickly for me. So yeah, it’s been I mean, it’s been a hell of a ride. I think the biggest change that I’ve gone through in the company probably over the last three years is I was convinced and I think a lot of business owners are convinced that business has to be really hard that you have to grind it out. You have to push through the barriers, you have to smash your goals, you have to break through the next paradigm. And all that is to me is just basically, you know, this is gonna hurt and I just need to hold on until I get to where I want to go even though the whole time I’m going to be in pain. And, you know, I ran my business like that for 12 years. And, you know, I live my purpose. I love what I do. And I didn’t like my business, I didn’t enjoy it. And I did it because I felt like I had to. And I was constantly pushing myself to do the things that I felt like I needed to do. And hey, it worked, but I wasn’t enjoying it. And then I really realized there has to be a better way to do this, that business. Surely business doesn’t just mean me forcing myself to do things I don’t want to do. And me putting myself through pain to achieve my goals that there’s got to be some other mechanism for motivation I can use and then now remember this, you know, Richard Branson story of you know, he’s got 300 companies, whatever it is, and he says the first question he ever asks himself before I start sending you business is is this going to be fun? And if the answer’s no, he won’t do it.

And then I remembered watching in an interview with Warren Buffett, and he’s talking about his relationship with Charlie Mongo, who’s his right-hand man and he said, You know, we’ve not had fun Now whole business career. So then I started thinking, Okay, well, you know if these guys are talking about fun in business, maybe that’s something I can bring into my own life. And, you know, we rebuild our whole company and our whole culture and everything that we do from the ground up to be, are we having fun, and when we’re having fun, businesses quite effortless, the still big problems to solve. There are still massive challenges always that was dealing with, we’re still always trying to find that new way of thinking, that new way of being in our business to help serve our clients more and serve ourselves more. But it’s always are we having fun, and if we’re not having fun, you know, we need to change how we’re showing up, or we need to change the company, we need to change how we’re doing things because what I’ve noticed, at least in my own experience, that actually think it’s universal, but I don’t have enough data yet to know for certain is when people are having fun, they’re at their best, right when I’m having I’m in a sales call. It’s effortless.

When I’m having fun in a seminar, working with a client, it’s effortless and they having fun as well and then you know when Being without by the experience and, you know, it’s it’s a very simplistic analogy, but there’s a children’s movie called Monsters Inc, which, you know, I love using children’s movies because, you know, you get the lessons and the whole movies they’re using, you know, the sound of theater power the city. And it actually just takes one person to realize the sound of the loft is actually 10 times more powerful. But it’s that leap of faith because we’ve been using fear and pain and what happens if I don’t succeed our whole lives to motivate ourselves.

But if you can take that leap of faith in yourself, and I’m fun to think, well, actually, if I’m just so happy because I’m having so much fun. Every day in my business life, I’m going to trust that and that way, I’m going to be successful. So if there was one thing that I know, I think I had to go through the rites of passage to really realize what fun was, but feels one thing I could offer to people out there who are running a company or running a business like it doesn’t have to be hot, you know, there’s always going to be difficult problems to face but you can have fun even though things aren’t difficult, or you can be difficult, it must be having a very, very hard, very challenging experience.

And so I think I love the company so much. And now that I love it, everything’s easy. Even when it’s hard, it’s still easy, because I’m not making it more difficult because I’m like, you know, setting myself on fire to keep the company warm, which is, I think, what most business owners are doing, and that’s just not a sustainable option. So, yeah, it’s not, if you can trust in the fun in my experience, you know, this, this can be a hell of a ride.

Doug: So think about yourself and people you’ve coached on this. And when they are ready to confront that question, which I quite agree with you, I think, I think that fun factor is a really, really important indicator. So So what kind of levers do they pull once they’re ready to cross this sort of over this mental boundary? And they’re ready to confront this. What are the two or three most common things you see people do? 

Confronting Mental Boundaries

MJ: I think the first thing that I think they need to do is to realize that whilst that business exists to serve the clients, it also exists to serve them in that stuff. And when you look at when you add that second component of what a business should be in the whole game changes because really what, you know, I’ll just talk about my own experience, really what happened when I put fun at the top of the equation is, you know, a bunch of what would be considered normal business things to do, we just stopped doing so. You know, I work in the seminar industry, it’s, you know, you come to one seminar, and then there’s a more expensive seminar and a more expensive seminar and a more expensive seminar. And, you know, that’s the that’s like the normal way that you would sell a product, you just continually upsell into more expensive products. And rather than doing the normal way of doing things, which is just a build that out in a week, and then just sell as many people as we can.

We’re doing things strategically and, you know, I don’t work with people for six months. Because I don’t have fun doing that. Right? So all of a sudden the products that you’re building, am I going to have fun selling this product, creating this product, putting this product out in the world? When we’re creating content now, right? We’re just about to start out, you know, huge social media campaigns. We’ve got the content machine running, when I’m producing the content when I’m on a podcast, I’m having fun, right? Is what we’re talking about fun when I’m sitting down, creating a fight, you know, writing back to Facebook comments, creating a Facebook post, how can I have fun doing this? And everything that you’re doing, you start becoming really intentional about what you’re doing, because it’s a fun thing. So it’d be the first big thing.

The second thing that I would say is to prepare for pushback. It is insane. The reactions that you get from people when you tell them that your business exists to create fun for stuff. It’s like, it’s like you’re telling people that you can teleport to the moon. It’s so right but we’re out of the normal conception of what they think is possible. You’re going to get pushback, and, you know, some people will be happy, some people will be interested. But then a lot of people are just gonna be like, you can’t succeed that way. It’s too airy-fairy, it’s too woo to have fun when you’re showing up, business just has to be about the data, it just has to be about the numbers. And I think business is about the data. And it is about the numbers, but that daughter and those numbers, I mean, that’s just putting the human experience into numbers, right? Like, your sales revenue is just a number of people who’ve been so moved by whatever it is that you’re doing that they’ve decided they wanted to be a part of it somehow. And so when you realize, look, at the end of the day, no matter what business you’re in, you’re gonna have to deal with a human at some point. And if you’re actually looking at it, that the numbers are designed to serve you and actually, your business is designed to make whatever impact you want to make on the world better. And at the deepest scale and with more, with more repeatability, then really everything changes.

And so I think the two things that in there is number one Adding in the sexual component that yes, your business exists to serve your customers, but it also exists to serve you and your team and your staff. And I think there’s a huge gray area in, you know, customer’s always right? Well, yes, the customer is always right, your, your staff are always right a lot as well. And so, I think to get into that, you know, a beautiful area of, well, yes, we want to have our clients backs. But we also want to have our staff’s backs and make them feel supported. And I think the way to do that is to create an environment where people shop and love what they’re doing and love the work that they’re doing. And then the second component is to prepare for feedback. But to really realize, you know, the only opinion in your own business that matters is your art. And if you don’t feel like something is right, then change it. And that, you know, I love this idea that the culture of your company can be anything you want it to be, it’s like, you can design the rules as a society.

And as long as it’s following the rules of the law, you can be any way you want it to be. And I think giving people permission to start to, you know, let go of all of the people that they hate giving them advice, advice, really including myself and really start to follow their own instincts and follow their own hunches. In my experience, magic happens. And when we’re all in our business, and it’s just magical, we don’t know how it’s happening. It’s just happening. And we all have moments of this where we get into this beautiful pocket and everything just lines up. And it’s like you show up to work and magic is happening. It’s like, well, what if we can try and create every day to be like that, and you might my experience, everything works. And so if you can put that at the forefront of your own mind, and I think the intentionality in your business just grows massively, and then you know, things start working the way they’re supposed to work. 

Doug: Do you declare this to be sort of a contrarian message? As business owners out there, what you’re saying is, start with one, let it serve you and your team. It’s a very interesting spin on culture in your business. And I, I would classify it as a bit of a contrarian message and yeah, and I personally, I love contrarian.

MJ: I think it probably is. But the interesting thing is, you know, now it’s like now that I kind of figured this out, and I and I can see it. I see it everywhere. And I see, like, I see I just see someone like Richard Branson. And he’s just having the best time in his life,

Doug: He is true. He is indeed. and the most phenomenal company seems to be that way. Right? And for all of his adventures seem to be that way. 

MJ: Exactly. And, and then I think about when I’m at a restaurant, and the staff are having fun, how amazing and experiences and how that that energy is infectious and how it makes me want to go back and when I go on to an airline, like virgin airline and having fun, and they make me laugh during the voiceover, I’m like, Ha, isn’t that interesting how I’m attracted to that, and I want to be around that. But I think, you know, honestly, hearing Warren Buffett talks about his relationship with Charlie Munger, and have been in business for four or five decades. Obviously made an incredible amount of money and a huge impact. And to hear him say that they’ve never had a day where they haven’t had fun, their whole business relationship.

You know, I just realized, look, if he can do it, and it’s working for him, it’ll probably work for me. So I think it is a contrary message. I think it’s going to slowly shift, right? Because I think there are a lot of businesses out there who actually really don’t enjoy working in that business, but they’re forcing themselves to do it because you have to somehow force yourself to do things because it’s the only way Yep. Look, it is pretty contrarian. But I also think, like, at some level, it just makes sense. Like, whenever you’re having fun, no one has to tell you what to do. You don’t have to, you know, be nice, it’s just, it’s all-natural. It’s all effortless.

And so when you put that at the center of your business, that everyone just starts having the best time and, and I think the thing that my staff love about this, you know, we’ve got a small team, but you know, I’m constantly saying to them, if you’re not having fun what you’re doing, that’s a problem and you need to bring that to me and willing to change the product so that you can have fun, or we’ll figure out what’s coming up for you that isn’t fun. And we’ll figure out a way to work it. And then everyone’s empowered to make decisions about how they think the business should run. And it doesn’t mean we’re always going to do it, right. Someone says, Hey, I think we should stop selling that product. I’m like, well, we actually need to stop keep setting up product, but maybe we can shift how you relate to that product. So you’re having fun, re-feel empowered, that they’re actually working in a company, which kids rather like there’s actually care there. And this company is being built for them so that they’re having fun. And I just love the idea of people coming to work. And the question in their mind is, am I having fun?

And if the answer is no, something has to change. And so yeah, it probably is very contrarian. But I also think it’s, quite simple and Mike makes intuitive sense. And it’s just about taking that leap to actually doing it. And even if someone listening to this just tries to make things a little bit more fun, just when you sit down at the start of a meeting. Just try and make everyone laugh before you get to business right Everything just seems to handle itself because we’re at our best when business is just happening. Right? It’s like we don’t even really thinking about the numbers. We’re just showing up. We’re in flow, we’re having fun and the sales just happened. The Magic just happens. And so I think, Well, you know, let’s put that first.

Doug: So give us a little bit of an idea how when you help a business owner or a team, what sort of what are the what’s your process, if you will? Do you have a sort of a top-down view of that, like, we start here we go, there we go there and we end up here?

What’s The Process?

MJ: Yeah, so I look, I’ve really stepped away from, you know, working strictly with businesses, to me, I’m much more working with people now. But to go through the experience, I mean, it starts at the top, and you have to get the CEO, the director, the founder, you have to get their buy-in. And if they’re not committed to having fun within themselves, it’s not going to work. And so, what I have found is, you know, they have to hit the limit of the other way of, you know, grinding and hustling. bustling grinding and hustling are great. But what about if we can hustle to replace a fun? What about if you can work long hours and do all of that whilst having fun at the same time? I think like they have to hit a wall. And when they hit the wall, once they’ve hit the wall, then they’re open to it, because it’s so you know, as you’ve said, it’s so contrarian that they really have to be like, wow, I need to make this change.

Because that’s what happened to me, right? I was working in my purpose, living in an incredible apartment overlooking Sydney Harbour, you know, working with a very easy subset of clients had a product that worked. We had the marketing handled, and I wasn’t enjoying it. And I was like, all right, like, everything is lined up here. And this still isn’t working, something’s got to change. So I have to go through that rite of passage, I think. And then once I’ve hit the wall, they have to commit to it. And then the big thing is, is the culture has to be congruent. The CEO concept We’re going to have fun. And then his or her actions be incongruent with that. And I think that’s the thing. It’s like so many, you know, I think so many founders are saying, This is what we want the culture to be. But then their actions are completely different. And, you know, I was having dinner with an actually my very, very first client is now a friend on he runs a tech company now that I think I got 16 staff that grew to 60 over the next 12 months. And I was talking to him, I was like, Look, dude, I don’t think your staff will feel safe, to be honest with you. And he’s like, What do you mean, I was like, Well, you know, what would happen if someone came to work? And they told you, they didn’t like their job? He said, Well, I would tell them to leave because there are 1000 other people who would want that job. And I was like, yeah, that’s the bit, right.

Like your team doesn’t feel safe to speak the truth to you. And that’s a massive liability in your company because they’re going to see something’s wrong with a product. Something’s wrong with a client. Something’s wrong with the process, and they’re going to be worried about how you’re going to react. And they’re not going to tell you. And that vulnerability is just going to sit in your company over time. And eventually, it’s going to explode. And that’s because people don’t feel safe enough to be authentic, they don’t feel safe enough to speak the truth. And that’s coming from you because you’re saying, I want the truth. But then your actions are being completed incongruent with that. And I think people can feel that, and they can feel that they’re not quite safe and something isn’t adding up. And so, building congruency with, you know, founder and executive team and culture, I think is the way to go. And if that’s congruent, then that’s where the change can start to really happen.

Doug: Right, so that safe spot literally builds trust in the team, right?

MJ: Yes. And and perfect. It’s, yeah, it’s crazy sitting down with people who have built a strategy, which assumes that that stuff isn’t going to trust them. And I’m like, wow, that’s your starting assumption. You’ll stop, I’m going to tell you the truth. And people are going to backstab each other like okay, like Great, that’s the problem you’ve created. And that’s what you’re going to try and go down the bottom of the barrel to solve rather than starting at the top of the river and saying, well, maybe we could actually change that. And we could operate from a company of trust. And there are companies out there who operate like that.

And, you know, I think they’re the type of companies who just quietly keep succeeding, year in year out, the clients love them, their staff love working there. Because ideally, as a business owner, as long as they’re the right fit, why would I not want someone to work for 20 years in my company? Like assuming they have the fit with their job and they’re performing? Well? Why would I not want someone to have that much impact on my company for 20 years if you’re the right person? And so when you start thinking like that, like, how do I create culture? How do I create a company where someone’s just going to work for me from when they’re 21 to when they’re 70? And I’m going to have someone be a basin of culture for 50 years, how do I need to start thinking about this job in this role is a company and, you know, I just think that’s the right way to do things.

Doug: Talk a little bit about the experience of somebody were to work with you and one of your programs and it can be any kind of person, an entrepreneur, an exec. You know, a father, a mother, doesn’t matter. You’re with only men now, right?

MJ: I broke up with the set of all the women.

Doug: So, uh, too bad.

MJ: Yeah, I know. I know, right? Well, yeah.

Yeah, I’ve left them but, uh, yeah. Oh, yeah. So, look, you know, what we do is, you know, just talking about men in particular, because, you know, the work we do with women was quite different. But I’ll talk about an entrepreneur actually. So, you know, we’ve had some very successful entrepreneurs come through our programs. You know, we’ve had cofounders of billion-dollar tech startups like just guys that if you could pick you to know, any metric of success, wealth, physical health, you know, relationships network. We’ve had the world-class have come through the program and I’ll never forget sitting in a room and someone asking a guy who’s probably worth maybe 40 million at that time. Was it worth the climb? Was it worth it? And his answer was, I don’t know. That started stressing me out. It’s like, oh, wow, that’s I don’t like hearing that.

And then having another guy who’s you know, very very, very successful tech startup told me he bought his own plane so then no one could stop him running away from himself. And realizing that people who are achieving massive success not only on enjoying it, actually still struggle with locking themselves actually still struggle with feeling like they are enough actually still struggle feeling joy or feeling any form of emotion and realizing, like, once you’re out of scarcity with money, I think, you know, economy did that study. I think it’s about 70,000 us a year once you’re out of once you earning about $70,000 us a year, every extra dollar doesn’t impact your happiness at all.

So let’s Okay, bye. Get to $70,000 a year, let’s all agree that happiness and money are correlated until you get to that point. But then beyond that, like what’s the point of being 100 million if you feel like you need to run away from yourself. And so what we do in our programs is we kind of create the space and create the experience. Well, let’s stop that. Let’s stop thinking that you need to feel like you’re not enough to motivate yourself to go and do things. So you can get that hit a dog. I mean, when you achieve your goals or someone tells you you did a good job, and so you feel like you’re enough for three minutes. And then you go right back into the rat race.

What about if we just don’t do that, and you actually operate from that place where you’re in your heart, you love yourself, I know, there’s a very airy-fairy term. And if you’re an entrepreneur, I probably just lost you there. But these are real experiences. You actually come from the place where you’re good, and you’re at peace in who you are. And then you go start your company, and then you go change company and then you go get your billion dollars, then the whole game is change because you’re playing a game you’ve already won. And in my experience when men are playing games, they know they’ve already won their free because they’re not so anxious about what’s going to happen if they lose because they’ve already won the game because they’re already at peace, which is why we’re doing things anyway to get things emotionally from them, then the whole game transforms, and people just come from that place of joy and the game becomes very easy, and they start laughing again.

And the big thing that happens with men that we work with is it deepens them, right? Like, you know, when when we’re working with women, they would become so light, it’s like, they’re just these bubbles of joy and power, and just magnificent just walking through the world. And it was, it’s a sight to behold, for the masculine for men, you know, it just about that death. And we kind of meet men like this and it just so deep within themselves and so present and so scented, that that can just really hold space for so many people around them. And that’s really what we give them access to when they come through our programs. And, you know, it’s a lot it’s a delight to watch. Men have fun again, and I think we need that. I think there are a lot of men out there who are in a lot of pain and when they can connect with that stuff. And realize they can put that at the center of their lives and really magical things start happening.

Doug: So is there any particular personality type that leans towards being more attuned to your work? Or is it universal? 

Personality Types and Business

MJ: I mean, I think it’s universal, but I don’t know yet. I have to live a whole life, but…

Doug: And you need you to need a little bit bigger data set, right? Yes. Stories, right. Yeah, yeah,

MJ: I need a 3 billion person data set will probably 4 billion by now. I mean, that has to be open. That’s the big thing that has to be open. And I just have to be willing to acknowledge that their mind isn’t the most powerful part of themselves. That’s it. But if people can shop if a man shows up with those two things, he’s going to get it. But it’s really recognizing that we are not you know, one of the key lessons of meditation is you’re actually not your thoughts. You’re the thing experiencing your thoughts. If men adjust willingly to acknowledge that maybe they do have a hot or even they’re going to go crazy. They have a soul, or whatever metaphor works for them, that maybe they got knows more than their mind if it is just willing to acknowledge that their mind doesn’t have to have supremacy in their life. And they’re open. We can Yeah, with those two things, if they’re committed to doing the work because it is very hard. Yeah, the process will work and It’s pretty miraculous.

Doug: So what’s the so let’s say somebody listening to this is curious, which you got my curiosity. How do you invite people… How do you invite people to learn more, right?

MJ: Yeah. Cool. What’s your, what’s your path? Great. So website, MJFitzpatrick.com. If you really want to see what working with me is like going to YouTube just type in MJ Fitzpatrick. There’s something called the demon slang blog, which, you know, you have to use the right language when you’re targeting men. And it’s actually videos of me working with men. And they’ve got progressively you know, roughly every week, we take footage of me working with a man from one of our seminars he’s given Permission to release the footage. And you literally see what it’s like to go through this experience of having some sort of pain and working with the kind of letting it go.

Now, once they’re a bit interested, you know, in next year in America we’re going to be doing so it’s currently 2019. So 2020 we’re going to be in New York, Austin, and then either LA or SF, I’m not sure which one yet. And then come to a free seminar, right? We have a seminar that goes for a day, it’ll be free probably for the next six months in America and they will start charging for it’s called kill your demons. It goes for about six hours and you come into the room, and we show you the process. And we’ve had guys leave out free seminar and say that’s the best self-help seminar I’ve ever been to and that’s having done the Tony Robbin’s landmark, you know, kind of bandwagon. And then from there, if you want to keep working with us, great.

You’re welcome to we’d love to have you. If you don’t want to keep working with us. Great. That’s okay, too. It’s just we want you to get the experience of what it’s like to start to get out of your head and see what life is life living from that got leaving as being a hero in your own life. And then You know, we take it from there, but, you know, just get curious. You know, I’m a pretty easy guy to reach. My email is not hard to find, I’m going to stop saying that because I get a lot of emails, but you know, it’s not that hard to find. Yeah. And it’s not that hard to you know, go on YouTube and watch some of the videos and yeah, you’ll start to see what it’s about.

Doug: Great. And we’ll make sure we post those links in the show notes here. So when you go find the transcripts, you’ll find the actual links, you guys so so you can really chase down MJ and understand what he’s doing. So if you were kind of to distill all this into, like, your one best piece of advice for that and let’s just focus on men sorry ladies that will go with this. Yeah, the man that’s the man that’s building a business entrepreneur who hasn’t quite had it himself on the back yet. He’s a business building. He’s like, what’s the next thing I got to do? What comes to your mind? Number one piece of advice?

MJ: Yeah, you don’t have to set yourself on fire to fuel your business. Yeah, there’s another way.

Doug: And you know that sort of the entrepreneur’s story is you kind of do have to set yourself on fire. It’s like I think that’s a common belief is you gotta throw you’re all into it.

MJ: Yeah. And, you know, let’s just for those guys out there who love taking action, you can still take the most active in the world. You can wake up every day and you know, get an ungodly amount of things done, but the fuel that you’re using to get that done, it doesn’t have to be you set yourself on fire, it can actually be something you enjoy.

Doug: Brilliant. MJ. Terrific having you on today. Thanks. You’ve got your stuff here. MJFitzpatrick.com, you guys. Go check it out. Check out YouTube. I love your message. I love your work. I look forward to coming to the US and sharing this. So thanks very much for being on today.

MJ: You’re welcome. Thank you for having me on.